Mr. Singh Goes to Quebec
Mr. Singh Goes to Quebec
NDP leader talks racism, learning French and why minority governments work
Jagmeet Singh was in his third year of law school when everything came tumbling down.
His father’s drinking had gotten so out of control that he lost it all; his job, his savings, the family home and his ability to support Singh’s two younger siblings. So Singh stepped up as best he could, taking in his kid brother Gurratan while juggling part time jobs and a full course load at York University.
At a time when most of his classmates could focus solely on their studies and social lives, Singh had to be back at the apartment every night, cooking for Gurratan and making sure the 15-year-old’s homework was done.
By the time he graduated, at 26, Singh was thrust into his father’s place at the head of the household.
“I was the sole provider. I was 26 and I was the one paying the mortgage, putting food on the table and supporting my family,” Singh told The Rover. “I remember what it’s like when things are tough. When I was in university, if I didn’t work, if I didn’t have any money coming in, it wasn’t me that wasn’t eating, it was my kid brother too. I remember that fear.
“I want to build a world where no one gets left behind because we were almost left behind.”
As he enters his second election as leader of the New Democratic Party, Singh says he’s fighting to make sure no one in Canada feels expendable. But for him to make his mark on the nation, he’ll either have to fight hard enough to force another minority government — where his party holds the balance of power — or emerge from trailing the Liberals and Conservatives in the polls to win this thing outright.
Still, there is some hope. Many of the same surveys that have the NDP trailing also rate Singh as the federal leader with the highest favourability rating.
Of course, there’s a catch.
If Singh wants any shot at becoming the next prime minister, he’ll need to make gains in Quebec, where his position on the province’s religious symbols ban and his caustic relationship with the Bloc Québécois make it something of an uphill battle.
Even so, Singh is making it his mission to target ridings in cities like Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke — which boast large student populations — as well as rural ridings that broke big for the NDP during the “orange wave” of 2011.
We spoke to the NDP leader about the key to winning in Quebec, the election nobody wanted and what sets him apart from Justin Trudeau. And yes, we asked him about the time he was kicked out of the House of Commons last year for calling Bloc Québécois MP Alain Therrien racist.
The Rover: I have to ask this. Do you regret calling Alain Therrien a racist?
Jagmeet Singh: Well, for me, it was a really emotional moment. I put forward a motion to call for some changes to address systemic racism in the RCMP and there was one MP, one MP that said no. In the entire assembly, in the entire House of Commons, there was one guy. And he kind of just brushed his hand away in this dismissive gesture. I thought, “That is exactly what racialized people face.” They get dismissed, they get brushed off. They get told that their lives don’t matter.
To me this is not a hypothetical thing. I’ve met with families that have lost their loved ones. I met with the family of Chantel Moore, an Indigenous woman who was killed in a wellness check. The police went to check up on her and she got killed. How does that happen?
I met with the family of Ejaz Choudry, who was an elderly Muslim man, who was alone in his home when police broke down the doors and shot him. Like, to see that happen and put forward a motion that says “Hey, can we make policing safer so that it doesn’t kill people?” And for someone to brush their hand at that, I was just thinking about all those families that lost some loved ones because police came in and killed them, I was emotional and angry.
I don’t apologize for feeling the pain of people who’ve gone through this, who’ve lost lives. If one guy wants to say no to us trying to do something, I got upset at that. That’s exactly why this injustice continues.
TR: You probably don’t remember this but we first met in the lobby of Radio-Canada’s Montreal studio during the 2019 election. I was leaving a gig and you were introducing yourself in French, just super enthusiastic about it. We locked eyes and you made a beeline towards me and said “Bonjour, je m’appelle Jagmeet.” I didn’t have the heart to tell you I was an anglophone. How much work do you put into learning French?
JS: Really? (Laughs). In general, I always want to be better at what I do, I always want to improve. But for language, I love, love language and I love, love French. I find it just, very, I feel every time I learn more, it helps me think in different ways and understand things differently and so I’ve really thrown myself into learning and improving. So yeah, I listen to music, I watch shows, I try to think in French, I try to have conversations.
TR: What’s the show you watch? The news or a drama series or what?
JS: Well listen, I want to make sure Netflix pays their fair share so that remains my position, but there’s a French show called Lupin and that’s pretty cool. It’s like this guy who’s a master of disguise and a jewel thief. It’s pretty good, that actor is really cool, I like the way he talks, the way he vibes.
TR:We’re getting out of a session of parliament where a minority government was in power. Was it working? And if it was, what’s something this parliament accomplished that you’re really proud of?
JS: It absolutely was working. We were delivering help to people. What we found was, the Liberals wanted to do the minimum. They wanted the wage subsidy to be 10 per cent and we fought for it to be 75 per cent. In doing that, we were able to save millions of jobs. A lot of workers were going to lose their jobs but for that wage subsidy.
So I’m really proud that happened. We fought hard, that wasn’t something that happened easily. The Liberals tried to hold firm but we insisted, we cited other countries who did the subsidy, we mobilized, we organized and got it up to 75.
The other thing we did, that helped millions of Canadians, millions of Quebecers, was the Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB). The Liberals wanted to start at $1,000 and we fought to double it to $2,000. That made a difference for a lot of people in this pandemic. Really proud of those two things. Those are two things that wouldn’t have happened but for the fact that the New Democrats were there.
“The Liberals really showed, when they wanted to pass things that hurt people, they teamed up with the Conservatives. We forced them to help people.”
-Jagmeet Singh
TR: COVID was tragic and awful but it also provides us with an interesting experiment in governance. Millions of Canadians rallied behind a campaign of mass vaccination, you had the CERB payments, huge societal changes that had to be made overnight. What does that tell us about the appetite for socialism in Canada?
JS: I think it really opened up people’s eyes to something we’ve been saying for a long time as New Democrats. When government focuses on the needs of people, it can be a source of great change. Aside from those two changes we discussed, the NDP also fought for paid sick leave, we it should be easier to access and there should be more days. We were pushing for more but we got a federal paid sick leave. We also were able to get help to students not covered by CERB. It showed people that government can help you out when it prioritizes people. That’s what we were proud of, that we were able to make this government work for the people. Trudeau will complain that he had to negotiate with us and we fought him to do more than he otherwise would have done. He might say that that’s a problem but I’d say that’s exactly what Canadians want us to do.
The Liberals really showed, when they wanted to pass things that hurt people, they teamed up with the Conservatives to vote against our motion to bring in pharmacare. They teamed up with the Conservatives to vote against our motion to tax the ultra rich and they teamed up with the Conservatives to vote against getting profit out of long term care. We forced them to help people.
TR: Ten years ago, Quebec was hit with the orange wave. We went from having one NDP riding in the province to 59 overnight. Now, two election cycles later, we’re back to just one MP. What happened?
JS: Well, one of the exciting things we see in Quebec, is that sometimes people change their mind. One election they went towards the Liberals, the next they changed and they are opened to being convinced. I think we can put the case to Quebecers that — in this tough time — when people needed help, did the Conservatives help you? No. Did the Bloc actually do anything to make your life better? No. But New Democrats were there for Quebecers. We got help to people. I think we can make that argument to Quebecers, if you need someone that’s on your side, we have a track record of having achieved that more than any other opposition party. And the Liberals wouldn’t have helped as much but not for us.
TR: There’s a perception, in Quebec, that outsiders think Quebecers are more racist than people in the rest of Canada. I certainly don’t think we’re more racist but I also don’t think we’re immune to prejudice either.
JS: A hundred per cent. This is a Canadian problem. I started my political battle against systemic racism in Toronto, which people say is one of the most diverse cities in the world. And that’s where carding was the most prolific, where people were being stopped by police just because of the colour of their skin. Journalists exposed that — despite being a small, small percentage of the population — if you were Black, Indigenous or racialized, you were getting stopped for more often (than if you were white). So it made it super clear that this really pernicious form of profiling, which meant that people with no criminal records were being denied employment and education just because they were being stopped by police and their police records were showing that they were “known to the police.” And they were only known because they were getting stopped by police for nothing.
That happened in Toronto. This is not an issue limited to one province. I grew up in Windsor, and I love my city, I have lots of fond memories. But it was tough for a Brown kid with long hair coming up in the playground. We know that there’s systemic racism across Canada. Indigenous people don’t have access to clean drinking water, that’s across Canada, we’ve got people that are disproportionately put in jail because of the colour of their skin, that’s Canada wide.
This is not at all an issue limited to one province of one territory. It actually harms the work that we’re doing to think that it’s just limited to one place. Because then we ignore the problem.
TR: There are experts who say Justin Trudeau probably lost his majority in parliament two years ago because he was drawn into so many public arguments with Quebec Premier François Legault. This time around, you’ve seen an appeasement on the part of Trudeau in regards to Legault.
He won’t fight the Bill 21 religious symbols ban in court, he’s careful to preserve this uneasy but chummy relationship with him. Would you say that there’s a way of taking on the issues in Quebec that are problematic without alienating the millions of people who support François Legault?
JS: Yeah, it shouldn’t be about one person, it should be about helping lots of people. What happened to Joyce Echaquan (the Indigenous woman who died in a Joliette hospital after enduring racist taunts by staff), that makes everyone sad. People in Quebec were upset at that, they knew it was a problem. It’s not like Quebec accepted that. They knew it was wrong. Why would an Indigenous woman lose her life, why would she be denied proper care because she’s Indigenous? That’s horrible. People were outraged by that and rightly so.
Systemic racism exists across Canada and I’m ready to take it on because I want to build a better world. I’m not worried about who might get offended by that. And I’m not trying to offend anyone either, I just want to make things better. I just want to fix things. That means working with people. It certainly won’t be achieved if we single out any one area, we have to acknowledge that it;’s everywhere.
TR: There’s a fixation in Quebec on religious symbols in the public sphere but ultimately, legislation to address that seems mostly to target people of colour. If you were to speak to a supporter of Bill 21 — you know, you’re someone who wears a religious symbol — how would you explain your stance on the controversial law?
JS: I would say I don’t support laws that divide us. That shouldn’t be the purpose of laws. Laws should bring people together. And I don’t like laws that create two categories of people; one that gets rights and one that doesn’t. That not a good way to build a world. I want to make sure I’m working for everyone. Those are the ideas that we can build on. People believe in fairness, people believe that that makes sense. I’m confident that we can show people the harms of divisive or discriminatory laws. It’s something that impacts everybody. We have something that makes people feel unwelcome and sends a bad message.
When my dad got better, he lost everything, he didn’t have any insurance, he was down and out, he had lost a lot of weight and doctors told him he would die. He said, “I don’t want to die” and when that happened, we found him a publicly funded rehab centre that saved his life. If that wasn’t there, he wouldn’t be here today. I get what public services mean.
-Jagmeet Singh
TR: On the issue of reconciliation, you recently said “I’m not Justin Trudeau.” Of course, you’re literally not Justin Trudeau because he’s a different person. Could you elaborate on what you meant by that?
JS: Yeah, I mean, this is in no way to suggest I understand all the pain Indigenous people face. But I’ve been made to feel like I’m not worthy because of the way I look. I know what that’s like. I grew up on playgrounds where I got picked on and people wanted to fight me just because of the way I looked.
I also struggled with tough financial times. When I was in university, my dad lost his work because of an addiction he was struggling with and I had to take my kid brother in with me while I was in my third-year of university. He was 15 years old, I had to cook and provide for him, work a bunch of jobs, we lost our house, my mom and dad declared bankruptcy. We went through lots of tough times, my dad didn’t work for a couple of years and when I graduated from law school, I was the sole provider. I was 26 and I was the one paying the mortgage, putting food on the table and supporting my family. I remember what it’s like when things are tough. When I was in university, if I didn’t work, if I didn’t have any money coming in, it wasn’t me that wasn’t eating, it was my kid brother too.
I remember that fear. I remember this feeling of, just because of the way I looked or the colour of my skin, I didn’t belong. And I know that this is an experience so many people face because of their background or the colour of their skin. Whether they’re Indigenous or racialized, whether it’s because of their sexuality or gender identity, I’ve experienced a little bit of those kinds of struggles.
I want to build a world where no one gets left behind because we were almost left behind. When my dad got better, he lost everything, he didn’t have any insurance, he was down and out, he had lost a lot of weight and doctors told him he would die. He said, “I don’t want to die” and when that happened, we found him a publicly funded rehab centre that saved his life. If that wasn’t there, he wouldn’t be here today. I get what public services mean. It means that if someone is down and out, if someone has nothing, they can still get care, they can still be looked after. My dad bounced back, he’s a successful doctor, he came back from so many ups and downs. I want everyone to get justice, I want everyone to be treated fairly. Because I understand what it’s like to feel less worthy.
TR: I almost forgot to mention this but congratulations, you’re going to be a father.
JS: I love the energy kids bring to any space. Their love of life, the excitement they have over the smallest things. I’m kind of like that too. I’m easily excitable, I enjoy the small things in life. My brother has a kid, she’s my niece, her joy and smiles when she just looks at her hand or her feet or discovers that she can stand. It brings wonder to life. I’m looking forward to the adventure.
TR: One last one, British Columbia Premier John Horgan. It’s one of the only large scale examples of an NDP government we’re seeing in Canada right now. In regards to the logging in the Ferry Creek, the RCMP dismantling protest camps and his record on the environment, a lot of folks don’t think he’s living up to the ideals of the NDP. What’s your stance on that?
JS: Old growth forests, I’ve been there and walked amongst these trees and it’s spectacular. We need to protect those. My mom taught me this concept that we’re all one. She not only underlined that if people are hurting, we’re all hurting, and when we help them we’re helping ourselves. I also learned that on a spiritual level we’re connected to the planet. And when we hurt the planet, we hurt ourselves. For me it’s personal. We announced recently that we will support Indigenous communities on whose lands these questions are being raised. We want to give them the tools to preserve and protect their lands. We plan on releasing $500 million to be used for Indigenous led conservation initiatives. I think we can do a lot more and we need to.